Read more and watch the video version of this episode at https://hsvyimby.com/podcast/community-of-hope

To learn more about Community of Hope, visit https://hsvcommunityofhope.org/

The idea that mental illness is the main cause of homelessness is a myth that persists despite copious research debunking it.

But there is a relationship between mental illness and homelessness. For example, all else equal, people with severe mental illness are more likely to experience homelessness. Also, homelessness causes and exacerbates existing mental illness. Most importantly for this discussion, simply building enough housing to meet demand would solve homelessness for the vast majority of people. Cash assistance would keep the vast majority of extremely low-income families out of homelessness. But for a very small percentage of the population, severe mental illness and/or addiction prohibits them from being able to stay housed even with cheaper housing and cash assistance.

This conversation follows up on our interview with Mike Tanner about conservatorship. We discuss with Zach how the law defines guardianship/conservatorship, who’s eligible,  and the legal mechanisms that are in place, and need to be in place, to protect these individuals from the harms of homelessness. It was an extremely enlightening conversation for me, and I hope you enjoy it as well.

In May 2023 ex-Marine Daniel Penny put Jordan Neely in a fatal chokehold on a NYC subway car. The article details Neely’s path from a rough childhood to becoming known around New York as a Michael Jackson impersonator. It chronicles his years-long struggle with drug addiction and severe mental illness, which were exacerbated by stints of homelessness and incarceration. Neely was a known danger to himself and others and had a warrant out for his arrest at the time of his death.

More affordable housing is the primary solution to homelessness. But even with more affordable housing and cash assistance, there will still be individuals who are unable to care for themselves without help. Conservatorship is the process by which a judge assigns a person a conservator who helps them manage aspects of life they cannot manage on their own, generally due to severe mental illness, addiction, and/or disability.

Conservatorship, like any system, can be abused. However, Neely’s tragic life story illustrates how allowing individuals to deteriorate without intervention is inhumane to them and dangerous to others.

Currently, jails function as de facto psychiatric treatment centers. Neely actually thrived in jail. He, like many, needed more intensive care than what voluntary programs can provide.

Things could have turned out completely differently for Neely if he’d had a conservatorship.

To learn more about conservatorship, check out our podcast with Mike Tanner and stay tuned for an upcoming episode where we will have Zach Anderson back on the pod to speak further about conservatorship.

Huntsville is home to an estimated 600 unhoused people. (This is almost certainly a massive undercount.)

And this number is rising.

View full show notes on the Housing for Huntsvillians website.

From Cathy:

First, I talk about how our public schools and news media understate the frequency and severity of documented, historical instances of racially motivated murder, assault, arson, and other forms of violence. 

Before reading this book, I did not know that incidents of violence meant to enforce residential racial segregation went beyond cross burnings. I did not know a Black family was burned alive in their home in retaliation for moving into a white neighborhood. I did not know how many Black people white supremacists lynched in retaliation for moving into a white neighborhood. I did not know that at least one police officer committed and many officers aided and abetted these crimes. 

Why, then, would I assume I understand the frequency or severity of current instances of violence aimed at reinforcing residential racial segregation? 

My second thought was, what’s really changed?

I do not want to be cynical. But nor do I want to be naive. It’s worse to be naive to injustice. 

Behavior changes when beliefs and incentives change. 

White people still believe that non-white neighbors lower property values.

NPR reported on a 2021 study by Freddie Mac showing appraisers are twice as likely as whites to give Black and Latino homeowners low appraisals. 

HUD is still perpetuating racism with vouchers and public housing. Why just now experimenting with cash assistance?

In the Year of our Lord 2023 in Huntsville Alabama a bunch of old white homeowners showed up to a planning commission meeting to complain about new apartments near their houses. 

Ken Dunn: “These will be high-end apartments I’m sure, but it’s not single-family residences. Apartment complexes tend to decrease the value of our single-family homes” he added.

James Yates: “I grieve for my neighbors on Garth [Road], they will have to look at this [the apartment buildings] every single day.” 

Is it really the buildings these men are worried about? Or the inhabitants?

https://twitter.com/lambda_calculus/status/1727009547380994405?s=12&t=mzC3hPIZqViNIMyjrws4XA&utm_source=pocket_saves

In the past few years police have aided and abetted violent crimes by the Proud Boys, an openly queerphobic, misogynistic, white supremacist group. 

Have the relevant incentives changed?

Housing cannot be a wealth generation vehicle and broadly affordable

People want to talk about using buying a home to get a foot in the door to a middle-class lifestyle. But with homeownership and land value appreciation, that foot in the door is stepping on someone else’s neck. And it’s disproportionately a white family stepping on a non-white family’s neck. 

Upzone Huntsville. 

Tanner is a Senior Fellow at The Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity (FREOPP), a non-profit think tank focused on expanding economic opportunity to those who least have it. In his more than 30 years studying public policy, Mike has testified before Congress ten times, written 11 books, and published dozens of reports, studies, and articles for outlets like the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, and the Washington Post.

In this episode, we begin by discussing the benefits of examining the evidence –- rather than just tribes, aesthetics, and emotions – when debating policy. Then Mike explains the need to differentiate unhoused people with severe mental illness and addiction from people who simply cannot afford housing. In essence, each group requires a different approach. 

Then Mike describes “Housing First,” the main policy approach to homelessness among the left and within the Biden administration and some of its biggest drawbacks. First, most Housing First programs convert some portion of existing housing stock to permanent subsidized supportive housing. But the vast majority of these programs do not involve building net new housing. Unfortunately, a city cannot reduce homelessness without building a lot more homes. In addition, long-range studies of Housing First programs shows that most recipients wind up unhoused again within ten years of entering most Housing First programs. When you add the expense of the “supportive” part of permanent supportive housing and the fact that subsidized housing is more expensive to build than market-rate, it becomes clear why Housing First, on its own, has never reduced net homelessness anywhere it’s been tried in the US and never will.

Then Mike takes aim at the right and GOP’s favorite policy approach to homelessness. Mike explains the reams of data showing that carceral approaches to homelessness are also not only ineffective at reducing homelessness but actually actively exacerbate it. As Tia and Emma pointed out in episode 5, using police to clear homeless encampments harms unhoused people and has led to at least one death in Huntsville’s unhoused communities. Sweeps don’t reduce homelessness. They just move it. And by harming unhoused people they actually further entrench homelessness. It’s harder to secure employment when you have to live further from jobs and police throw away your identification. It’s harder to lean on neighbors when you have to leave them. It’s harder to stay healthy when police throw away your mobility devices and medications. Frequent encounters with police, incarceration, and arrest/criminal records also further entrench homelessness. 

Then we discuss the reams of evidence showing that the main cause of homelessness is a lack of affordable housing. Mental illness, addiction, poverty, disability, etc. do make an individual more likely to lose their housing, all else equal. 

But the majority of unhoused people do not suffer from debilitating mental illness, addiction, or disability. And homelessness has increased far faster than rates of debilitating mental illness, addiction, poverty, disability, etc. And when you compare states and cities, there’s no real correlation between rates of mental illness, addiction, poverty, or disability and rates of homelessness. Instead, there is a very strong, often 1:1, correlation between housing affordability and homelessness. 

Therefore, there is no policy solution to homelessness with compelling evidence of likely efficacy that does not involve building a lot more housing. 

And to build a lot more housing, cities will need to streamline or get rid of exclusionary zoning laws and other regulations that limit the supply and increase the price of housing. 

The other policy solutions with evidence to support them include strengthening conservatorship, giving low-income families cash instead of vouchers or subsidized housing, and allowing communities flexibility in how they address homelessness.

Audience questions in the description below.

—

Huntsville New Liberals present guest speaker: Mike Tanner, Senior Fellow at The Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity (FREOPP), a non-profit think tank focused on expanding economic opportunity to those who least have it.

In his more than 30 years studying public policy, Mike has testified before Congress ten times, wrote 11 books, and published dozens of reports, studies, and articles for outlets like the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, and the Washington Post.

Audience Questions:

Question 1: What’s the relative breakdown between the two groups of homeless?

Question 2: Is there any way we can start thinking about basic living income?

Question 3: Do you think part of the issue is animosity toward homelessness though the belief that it is by choice or a moral failing?

We can’t emphasize enough that the consensus among researchers from the Furman Center to the Greater London Authority to the National Bureau of Economic Research to the White House Council of Economic Advisors is that average housing prices rise when demand grows faster than supply. And that Navy Yard and Seattle after a building boom and San Francisco during the pandemic all show that prices fall when supply exceeds demand. So it’s not great that whereas Mill Creek in 2019 was supposed to include 1500 units of housing, today the plan calls for 750. 

And the fact is that people are people and if they can’t raise prices they’re going to cut services, including health and safety. So it may be a portent of things to come that we reached out to Urban Strategies and Urban Design Associates about how to offer public input on the plan, and have yet to hear back.

We talk about the demand versus the supply of high-quality 101 content, especially around politics. We talk about whether more people should be involved in politics. And we discuss the drawbacks of politics as sports. And the importance of focusing on local politics.

We also, of course, discuss housing. We talk about solving homelessness through cooperative means by addressing artificially high housing costs. And we talk abut how Huntsville is a well-governed city that has experienced significant growth thanks to our leaders’ efforts in attracting business and development.

We talk about her journey to podcasting and what she’s learned from her two years publishing HSV Progressive and attending many, many City Council, City Planning, and County Commission meetings.

Meredith is absolutely right that District 5 desperately needs more affordable housing, as does every district in Huntsville. But rather than subsidizing landlords and developers, I’d much rather see the City lower average rents by legalizing dense, naturally affordable housing throughout District 5 while subsidizing low-income families directly.

Read more here.

The commission would help guide the city through implementing recommendations in 2010’s Green 13 Report, which the Huntsville Environmental Sustainability Committee (HESC) updated in April of this year.

There’s really just one thing this new commission, if formed, really must do to make Huntsville a significantly greener place to live. And that is to remove the barriers that make it more difficult and expensive for developers to build dense, naturally affordable housing near jobs, retail, services, and transit.

As the vote nears, I want to very briefly explain why I believe this. And I want to ask you to help me ensure that any such commission understands it as well.

Read the rest here: https://cathyreisenwitz.substack.com/p/4f4da9d4-1343-4ebc-b691-3db7389530aa

The shelter allows whole families to stay together and provides support for transitioning into permanent housing. Murray got connected to New Futures through his church, which serves meals and gives financial support. He has been passionate about homelessness since childhood and believes it should be a higher priority in society.

Our conversation also touches on systemic approaches to solving homelessness but acknowledges that most efforts focus on direct services rather than addressing root causes. We’re all frustrated that so many see homelessness as a fact of life when it’s a policy choice. There’s no reason it has to exist. Homelessness is a human rights issue and an extremely inefficient use of resources.

Researchers have found that while factors like mental illness and job loss make individuals more vulnerable to homelessness, the main driver of homelessness is the high cost of housing. We use the analogy of musical chairs to explain that the focus should be on increasing the number of available chairs (affordable housing) rather than solely on individual circumstances. However, addressing this issue is challenging because those with the power to implement the policies that can end homelessness are often not concerned about homelessness. And those who care about the issue tend to not have enough resources or time to advocate for affordable housing.

We also discuss the fact that we need to change Huntsville’s zoning and legalize modular homes and apartments. We must prioritize access to affordable housing over aesthetic preferences and addresses potential strategies for raising awareness and persuading individuals who hold opposing views.

We believe that when more people understand the trade-offs involved, they will advocate for dense, affordable housing near jobs and transit. The costs of not building enough housing are incalculable and have many, serious negative impacts on society.

Huntsville should have housing goals and metrics like California. Our city government should focus on aligning imported population numbers with new housing units. Removing red tape, streamlining permits, and changing zoning can fix our housing shortage.

Ideally, we’d like to start writing draft legislation and advocating for it at both city and state levels.

We also float the idea of setting the zoning code on fire. And on “burning up” zoning laws periodically to eliminate excessive regulations.

We talked to Emma and Tia about why Love Huntsville supports a Housing First policy approach to homelessness and why there’s no way to meaningfully alleviate homelessness without legalizing dense, affordable housing near jobs and transit.  We also talked about how the organization connects with the community and provides material support.

In this episode, Tia and Emma highlight the challenges of homelessness and the need for access to resources and preventative measures. They also address the issue of camp over-policing and law enforcement sweeps that displace vulnerable individuals and make their already difficult circumstances even more precarious, leading to tragic consequences such as deaths among displaced individuals.